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LonelyPixel
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System Information graphs: Add scale numbers

12 Jul 2012 08:23

Could you add the (minimum and) maximum numbers for the graphs in the System Information window? Right now, there's a funny colourful linechart going on, but it's meaning is unknown until you hover the mouse over the graph to see some value. Especially in the network graph, lines are going up and down so fast that even this tooltip is useless. The application knows very well what the currently displayed maximum of the graph canvas is, it would just be nice if it also told us.
 
estogram
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Re: System Information graphs: Add scale numbers

14 Sep 2014 05:33

I would like this info to be added as well. Just so you have some idea of how much the top of the graph represents.
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dmex
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Re: System Information graphs: Add scale numbers

30 Oct 2014 01:16

Those three graphs don't have a "maximum" value because ETW does not provide the information.

The other problem if we showed the graph maximum is knowing when to 'reset' the value without having to loop every value in the graph (causing performance issues). :?
 
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LonelyPixel
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Re: System Information graphs: Add scale numbers

30 Oct 2014 07:18

Of course they do! You already have it in some private variable to know how to scale the graph on the screen. This value is just not displayed.

This is not about the maximum possible value a data source might ever provide – it's about the currently displayed maximum value. Basically the top-most value that would go on the Y axis, which you don't have as well. This value will change as greater samples are added and disappear again at the left end.

Also, I have the impression that the graph grid lines just show arbitrary pixel distances that have no relation to the actual values they should represent. In other words, they may be used as an orientation to find equal values throughout the graph, but they are entirely useless to know the value itself by going up or down a grid line. Most well-done graphs align the grid with "even" numbers along the X/Y axes. (Where "even" must be determined depending on the range of values currently displayed and the available screen space to keep them readable. If you need an algorithm for that, I could provide you one or two, implemented in C# for Windows.Drawing and WPF, the latter also for logarithmic scales.)
 
estogram
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Re: System Information graphs: Add scale numbers

30 Oct 2014 17:13

Hi :)
Yeah, it's basically just so you have some context, so you know how much the highest spikes on the graph represents.
 
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dmex
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Re: System Information graphs: Add scale numbers

06 Feb 2016 04:54

wj32 has implemented scaling in v2.38 and above with 25%, 50% and 75% graph representation :thumbup:
 
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wj32
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Re: System Information graphs: Add scale numbers

08 Feb 2016 10:01

Added label for max data point in v2.38.
 
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LonelyPixel
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Re: System Information graphs: Add scale numbers

27 Feb 2016 12:51

Hm, well, what should I say, the current implementation in 2.38 isn't as useful as I had hoped for. I see two things:

The arbitrary horizontal grid lines have been replaced with fixed lines at 25, 50 and 75%. So at least they do have some use now. But still they don't relate in any way to the actual values displayed. This may be helpful for the CPU usage where these lines relate to the actual percentage values. If you have a power-of-two even amount of RAM, you can read something with the grid lines. But if the current displayed maximum of network I/O is at 3.28 MB, the grid lines at 25% (0.82 MB), 50% (1.64 MB) and 75% (2.46 MB) are just as odd as before. No improvement.

Then, the current scaling value is displayed just where the maximum value is shown in the graph. It's only a single value. So you know what value was current at that single point. But due to the lack of a usable grid, other values are still visual guesswork.

I'd recommend you to open an Excel document, insert some data, and create a basic line graph. The default settings should give you an idea of what is usable so you can compare it with what you have now. It's not there yet.

Also take a look at Windows 10's system task manager. It does the graph scaling pretty well. I also like how the visible time span is shown there. This has improved a lot.
 
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wj32
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Re: System Information graphs: Add scale numbers

27 Feb 2016 13:21

LonelyPixel wrote:
But if the current displayed maximum of network I/O is at 3.28 MB, the grid lines at 25% (0.82 MB), 50% (1.64 MB) and 75% (2.46 MB) are just as odd as before. No improvement.
I'm not sure if it's because I'm fine with mental arithmetic, but this seems like a very reasonable thing to do. From the maximum you can easily work out a ballpark figure for other values on the graph.
Then, the current scaling value is displayed just where the maximum value is shown in the graph. It's only a single value. So you know what value was current at that single point. But due to the lack of a usable grid, other values are still visual guesswork.
You want each horizontal line to have an associated label?
I'd recommend you to open an Excel document, insert some data, and create a basic line graph. The default settings should give you an idea of what is usable so you can compare it with what you have now. It's not there yet.
Why are you comparing the PH graphs to Excel graphs? The emphasis for PH is to have as little clutter as possible, and to make big spikes easily visible. I don't want the sys info window looking like a massive spreadsheet with numbers everywhere. Why do you care about what the precise figures are at some specific point in time?
Also take a look at Windows 10's system task manager. It does the graph scaling pretty well. I also like how the visible time span is shown there. This has improved a lot.
Hover over the graph and look at the precise time there.
 
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LonelyPixel
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Re: System Information graphs: Add scale numbers

12 Mar 2016 22:18

There's the saying about user interfaces "Don't make me think." I guess it applies to graph design as well in a way. A maximum of 17.3 MB gives me no indication of what value might be down there at the bottom. And that's what I get from the graph right now. I know that it's "way less than 17 MB" but it could do better.

My suggestion is indeed to add labels to grid stops, but maybe not to all of them, and only short labels. Short labels can only be achieved by using round numbers, not "max * 0.25". Using round numbers also means that the highest measured value is not necessarily at the top of the graph canvas.

Okay, an Excel graph is really overkill for this program. But a little bit of it couldn't hurt here, too.

Hovering is useless for very short spikes like at disk or network I/O. As the graph is constantly moving, I need too much time to figure out what value I get at the mouse cursor. And in such a dynamic system I need information fast before the action is over.
 
estogram
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Re: System Information graphs: Add scale numbers

23 Apr 2020 15:27

Hi, i just noticed today that this tag was added. Thanks for that. :-)